I SEE U, Episode 117: Ain’t We Lucky We Got Thelma from ‘Good Times’… Actress Bern Nadette Stanis

[00:00:02] Eddie Robinson: Before The Fresh Prince of Bel Air, before The Cosby Show, CBS premiered the first full black family on television in 1974. But 50 years later, has a new animated reboot ruined a pioneering TV family legacy?

[00:00:21] Bern Nadette Stanis: Because we were going in such a positive direction. You see that they could have picked up on some of those things, which would have made it much nicer to us and to our audience.

[00:00:30] Eddie Robinson: I’m Eddie Robinson. Stay tuned. As we chat with Thelma, the actress of the hit seventies sitcom, Good Times, Bern Nadette Stanis. We explore Black misrepresentation on screen. Why won’t Hollywood let go of negative stereotypes and old tropes of Black people in America? Variety TV critic, Aramide Tinubu, also joins us.

[00:00:55] Eddie Robinson: Oh yeah, I feel you. We hear you. I SEE U.

[00:01:02] Eddie Robinson: You’re listening to I SEE U. I’m your host, Eddie Robinson

[00:01:06] John Amos Good Times Intro: From television city in Hollywood.

[00:01:08] Eddie Robinson: Can you believe 50 years ago in 1974, a fresh, new, innovative take on African American families and Black representation in pop culture would make its way into millions of homes across the country. It was television’s. first sitcom showcasing a Black mother and a Black father, two parents trying to make ends meet while raising their three children, but not in a quaint little small suburban town or in a fancy multi layered brownstone.

[00:01:51] Eddie Robinson: It was set in a poor Black neighborhood. Chicago, created by Eric Monti and Mike Evans, both Black, and developed by executive producer Norman Lear, whose wife, and also notorious for introducing political and social themes to sitcom formats back in that era. Think All In The Family, The Jeffersons, One Day At A Time, even Sanford and Son.

[00:02:18] Eddie Robinson: Good Times was taped in front of a live studio audience. The show lasted six seasons. And ultimately, despite creative differences from creators and actors of the show, as well as low ratings during the latter part of the series, Good Times did a remarkable job of showing the struggles, joys, hopes, and dreams of the Evans family.

[00:02:39] Eddie Robinson: The cast included the mother, Florida Evans, played by Esther Rolle,

[00:02:45] Esther Rolle as Florida Evans on Good Times: Someday you’re gonna be a doctor, a specialist, the top brain surgeon of the world. Now take out the garbage.

[00:02:55] Eddie Robinson: Her husband, the father, James Evans, played by John Amos.

[00:02:59] John Amos as James Evans on Good Times: Now look here, woman, I’m the father of those kids. Any problems be solved around here, I’ll do it.

[00:03:03] Eddie Robinson: Older son, James Jr., also known as J. J., played by actor, comedian Jimmy Walker.

[00:03:10] Jimmy Walker as James Jr. (J.J.) on Good Times: You want this stuff repaired, right? Bring it to the follow, kid.

[00:03:16] Eddie Robinson: The youngest of the siblings, Michael, played by Ralph Carter.

[00:03:19] Ralph Carter as Michael on Good Times: You’re putting us on, boy?

[00:03:21] Ralph Carter as Michael on Good Times: Daddy, boy is a white, racist word.

[00:03:24] Eddie Robinson: And our guest on I SEE U, the sister of the Evans family, Thelma. Played by Bern Nadette Stanis.

[00:03:29] Good Times Season 2, Episode 9 "The Gang: Part 1" (original air date: 12 November 1974): Hey, sweet thing, I’m Mad Dog.

[00:03:33] Good Times Season 2, Episode 9 "The Gang: Part 1" (original air date: 12 November 1974): What’s your name?

[00:03:34] Good Times Season 2, Episode 9 "The Gang: Part 1" (original air date: 12 November 1974): Thelma.

[00:03:36] Good Times Season 2, Episode 9 "The Gang: Part 1" (original air date: 12 November 1974): Thelma? Where you get a weird name like Thelma.

[00:03:45] Good Times Season 2, Episode 9 "The Gang: Part 1" (original air date: 12 November 1974): When I was born, my mama took one look at me and called me Thelma. Just like your mama took one look at you and called you Mad Dog.

[00:03:53] Eddie Robinson: Good Times. It was just what the title ordered. This family inspired each other, supported one another, and always hoped for a shot at finally leaving the projects for good. But who would have guessed that 50 years later, the streaming platform Netflix would release an animated reboot of the Good Times series, which has received terrible reviews from critics, with many saying the new version highlights negative tropes and stereotypes about the city of Chicago and black families.

[00:04:26] Eddie Robinson: We’ll connect with one of the critics later, but first, we welcome actress, Published author and beloved sister Thelma on Good Times, Bern Nadette Stanis, who joins us from the studios of KVCR in San Bernardino, California, Bern Nadette. Thanks so much for being a guest on I SEE U.

[00:04:46] Bern Nadette Stanis: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[00:04:49] Eddie Robinson: Even though Bern Nadette, I grew up in Mississippi and only child. I watched you on Good Times as a kid. You were, you were like my big sister in my head. And D, remember D from What’s Happening?

[00:05:04] Bern Nadette Stanis: Oh, yes, definitely.

[00:05:06] Dee on What’s Hapenning: Let’s see what’s rated R.

[00:05:07] Dee on What’s Hapenning: You’re 11 years old and you’re gonna see G movies and that’s all there is to it.

[00:05:11] Dee on What’s Hapenning: But how am I supposed to learn about sex?

[00:05:15] Dee on What’s Hapenning: You’re not.

[00:05:17] Dee on What’s Hapenning: Until when?

[00:05:19] Dee on What’s Hapenning: Until you’re 185.

[00:05:22] Eddie Robinson: She was another sister in my head.

[00:05:24] Bern Nadette Stanis: Oh my goodness.

[00:05:24] Eddie Robinson: So my family was on television for Pete’s sake.

[00:05:29] Bern Nadette Stanis: That’s great.

[00:05:30] Eddie Robinson: And you ended up with the role of Thelma. I mean, how did you end up getting this role? I mean, and you were kind of wanting to be a dancer, right?

[00:05:40] Bern Nadette Stanis: I wanted to be a dancer, but I did study acting at Juilliard.

[00:05:44] Eddie Robinson: Got it. So you had to get out of Juilliard to do good times.

[00:05:49] Bern Nadette Stanis: Yeah.

[00:05:50] Eddie Robinson: And of course, that make you feel?

[00:05:52] Bern Nadette Stanis: A little scary. You know, you know, because, you know, my director, um, at the time, Margo Hawley, I went to her and I told her, I said, well, I did something I’m not supposed to do.

[00:06:02] Bern Nadette Stanis: I auditioned for a show and I didn’t think I was going to get it, but I got it. She just said, Oh, wonderful, darling, wonderful. And I have to go to California. Okay, you go to California. But I tell you, if it doesn’t work out, if the pilot doesn’t work out. You can come back here, but you’ll have to repeat the year. I said, Oh, great. They still want me.

[00:06:26] Eddie Robinson: So, so you land the role of Thelma on good times in the early seventies, sharing the screen with actors, Jimmy Walker, John Amos, Esther Rolle. What was it like on the set? You know, working with cast and crew, the whole thing there.

[00:06:41] Bern Nadette Stanis: Well, I walked into that studio with all these heavyweights and I’m like,

[00:06:45] Eddie Robinson: Right.

[00:06:46] Bern Nadette Stanis: I’m a, I’m just a newbie. I mean, you know, I don’t know anything. So I’m like, Oh my God, this is so exciting. But I felt like I can handle the job because, you know, I studied, I know my little stuff too. So, and plus, my character was very much like myself, you know, when I was growing up. And how I wanted to design her, you know, I wanted her to be ambitious, I wanted her to be a good girl, you know.

[00:07:11] Bern Nadette Stanis: And I wanted her to love her parents and her brothers and sisters. It was very much like brothers, rather very much like myself. That was my character. But the only thing I made her a Gemini, I don’t know why in my head. See, so, um, whatever, that’s how she was.

[00:07:30] Eddie Robinson: How important was that for you to ensure that audiences had like this accurate impression of not only your role, but of Black families in general, because it seemed like, you know, there was a lot of improvisation going on and you had brothers yourself and all of that felt, it had to feel genuine and authentic.

[00:07:49] Bern Nadette Stanis: It did. It actually did. Did I, maybe that’s probably why I did get the part because it was so familiar to my real life, you know, and I modeled a lot of my morals and my ethics after myself in certain ways.

[00:08:05] Bern Nadette Stanis: I modeled Thelma that way because I came from a family of the five children. My mother and my father were right in the home with us in our little project apartment. And you know, we were never without my parents. So they had us going to parochial schools, you know, all that, and, and, and, and dance and music.

[00:08:26] Bern Nadette Stanis: So everything was about culture and the future. They were loving, but strict parents, you know, because they always said, this is for your future. This is for your future. So we grew up kind of like, you know, knowing that if this is the bottom line right here in this apartment, we got, we have to make it out there.

[00:08:46] Bern Nadette Stanis: And so then portraying that character was very important to me because I was the first Black female teenager ever on television. So, yeah, and so the writers didn’t really know who I was. What to write about for me because you know, they’re, they’re, their worlds are totally different from what I grew up and I was in the show for about six months and I remember this one time I got the script and I literally was bored to death.

[00:09:18] Bern Nadette Stanis: I’m like, Or bored to life, but it’s like, Oh no, Oh no, it’s not. And so I went over to Esther Rolle, who I called mom, who was so supportive of everyone. We were very close.

[00:09:31] Esther Rolle as Florida Evans on Good Times: Now you’re just as smart and just as competent as anybody else. Whatever you want to do, you can do.

[00:09:38] Bern Nadette Stanis: So I said, Mom, you know, um, I’m getting bored. She said, you getting bored of what? I said, I’m getting bored. I have nothing to do. I mean, I go in and say, Hi, Mom. Hi, Dad. Shut up, JJ. And I’m in the bathroom with makeup. It’s too, it’s not enough. I mean, it’s just boring.

[00:09:54] Good Times Clip: I’m waiting to get in the bathroom. Thelma’s in there again. Hey, girl, you ever getting out of there?

[00:09:59] Good Times Clip: I’m coming. I’m putting the finishing touches to my makeup.

[00:10:02] Good Times Clip: Ain’t gonna help you none. Mother Nature already finished you good.

[00:10:06] Bern Nadette Stanis: So she said, okay, let me handle it. And she did handle it. And she told me to go up to the producers and tell them who my character is. And literally, I did. I told them what I needed.

[00:10:18] Bern Nadette Stanis: She said, I want my daughter to have more to say. And that’s how Thelma really developed. You know, she gave me the voice. She said, my son has a, JJ has a voice. Michael has a voice. I want my daughter to have a voice as well.

[00:10:32] Good Times Clip: He gave me this diamond engagement ring.

[00:10:35] Good Times Clip: Baby, baby. It’s a beautiful ring. And I know what it means to you. And it isn’t that we don’t like Larry.

[00:10:44] Good Times Clip: Ah!

[00:10:44] Good Times Clip: Add up all you got going for you. You got brains, you got personality. And look at that face.

[00:10:59] Good Times Clip: Thelma, you better grab him quick!

[00:11:06] Good Times Clip: J.J. J.J that’s enough!

[00:11:08] Eddie Robinson: When did you have a sense that what you were doing would be so groundbreaking?

[00:11:14] Bern Nadette Stanis: I didn’t know that it would be this groundbreaking, but I did know that I had the responsibility on my shoulders to be a person or a character that young girls would be looking at. And I said I want to represent the best I could.

[00:11:32] Bern Nadette Stanis: And that’s how my character came. I didn’t, I didn’t know it would last five years. I didn’t know that it would last 50 years. I had no concept. I just, no, I just knew that I wanted it to be okay whenever anyone were to see the show.

[00:11:48] Eddie Robinson: I’m Eddie Robinson, and this is I SEE U. We’re speaking with Thelma from the hit 70s series, Good Times.

[00:11:56] Eddie Robinson: Actress Bern Nadette Stanis. She’s one of the original cast members of the show, which debuted some 50 years ago on CBS.

[00:12:06] Eddie Robinson: Here’s something that I want you to listen to. Season two, episode 23, this particular episode of Good Times aired March 11th, 1975. Ms. Stanis, I wanted to get your reaction to this particular episode, because when dealing with issues related to what’s considered to be very controversial these days, a word like diversity, I felt like this episode really put that out there in a very provocative way. Here we go.

[00:12:36] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: You know, it’s really nice of you to invite me.

[00:12:38] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: Well, we just know you’re the type of girl for Zeta Gamma.

[00:12:41] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: What kind of a club is this?

[00:12:42] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: It’s a social organization.

[00:12:43] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: Oh.

[00:12:44] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: And we want you to know, Thelma, that you’ll be very welcome in our sorority.

[00:12:48] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: Thanks, but, uh, maybe I ought to look into the other clubs first.

[00:12:51] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: But we need you.

[00:12:53] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: Need?

[00:12:53] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: Oh, well, not need.

[00:12:55] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: No, no, no, but that’s what you said, Cindy. You said you need her in your club. Now, how come your club needs and the rest of the clubs don’t need her?

[00:13:01] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: I don’t know what you mean.

[00:13:03] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: Well, let me lay it to you straight then. You want Thelma in your club because she’s Black, don’t you?

[00:13:07] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: Well, yes. But we say to Gammas, don’t see what’s so bad about it. I mean, the Ro Kappas already have a Black.

[00:13:16] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: Oh.

[00:13:17] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: What you’re saying is, you want our daughter to be a token Black.

[00:13:20] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: The Alliston sororities are trying very hard to open their doors to you.

[00:13:24] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: Yeah? Well, why don’t you open them to a token Jap?

[00:13:26] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: We’ve got a Jap!

[00:13:31] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: An Oriental. And we also have a Chicana.

[00:13:34] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: So see, Thelma, they need you to complete the set.

[00:13:36] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: Please don’t be like that. Don’t you see? You see, we’re offering a helping hand.

[00:13:45] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: Thanks, but no thanks.

[00:13:46] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: You mean you’re turning us down? I’m trying to open doors for you.

[00:13:50] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: Then allow me to reciprocate. Speaking on behalf of the minorities throughout the nation, goodbye, adios, sayonara, and bon voyage.

[00:14:09] Good Times Thelma Scholarship Episode – first aired March 11 1975: You’re lucky they didn’t send Drusilla. She hates bees. Bees? Yeah. Blacks.

[00:14:20] Eddie Robinson: So what do you think about that, Thelma? Do you remember any of that?

[00:14:25] Bern Nadette Stanis: Oh, yes, I do, yes. Today, I think it’s wonderful that, really, Norman Lear and the writers, or whatever, would push something so far. You know, today we’re so sensitive to everything. We can’t even say Blacks. We can’t even say we would never be able to say the things that they said then.

[00:14:45] Bern Nadette Stanis: Never. I think that the situation still exists. I do. But I think that everybody’s a little more touchy about saying anything, you know, it’s like, we’re not going to acknowledge it. We’re going to act like it’s not there, but it’s there more than it’s ever been. And it hasn’t really changed just in not voicing it as much.

[00:15:08] Bern Nadette Stanis: That’s the way I feel about it. Um, I think that there’s a lot more, um, interracial situations, which has made it a lot more acceptable. But, um, as far as, uh, the way it is, and the way, uh, Black people are being treated in certain areas and certain situations, I think it is the same, if not worse.

[00:15:32] Eddie Robinson: Can you recall, you know, how some of the creative sessions, the read throughs, you know, what they were like at the time?

[00:15:37] Eddie Robinson: Because it sounded like, you know, you just said it, you know, the writers were pushing things.

[00:15:42] Bern Nadette Stanis: Yeah, they pushed everything.

[00:15:44] Eddie Robinson: And, yeah, I’m kind of shocked. to, you know, even here, like you said, you’re here, here we are 2024, you know, and she’s saying the word Oriental and that kind of thing. Tell us about some of those creative sessions, those read throughs.

[00:15:57] Eddie Robinson: I mean, because you guys had to put on a, like a clean face, you know, because they were live in front of a studio audience, right? I mean.

[00:16:04] Bern Nadette Stanis: Yeah, but see, that’s what made it so nice because we were like bringing to the world, uh, a dialogue, you know, we were bringing to the world. Yeah. Um, it’s okay to say these things and it was very, very edgy.

[00:16:18] Bern Nadette Stanis: And, um, I think that’s the way Norman was anyway. He would like his shows to be edgy. Because the first atoll that was flushed on television was in All in the Family.

[00:16:45] Bern Nadette Stanis: You know what I mean?

[00:16:47] Eddie Robinson: That’s right.

[00:16:47] Bern Nadette Stanis: You know what I mean? And so, you know, he brought that bigot to the, to the, to the world.

[00:16:53] Archie Bunker on All In The Family: Now listen little girl. Been around a lot of places, I’ve done a lot of things, but there’s one thing Archie Bunker ain’t never gonna do, and that’s break bread with no jungle bunnies.

[00:17:02] Bern Nadette Stanis: And we loved him. You know, we loved that character. But the reality was there. And so in life, even after 50 years, the reality is there. That’s why Good Times and all these classics live so long. Because it is real. It’s touching on something that people are uncomfortable to touch on. But if We didn’t say those things.

[00:17:25] Bern Nadette Stanis: They may not ever have been said, you know.

[00:17:35] Eddie Robinson: Coming up, we continue our chat with Bern Nadette Stanis, known for her TV role as Thelma on Good Times. The show’s executive producer, Norman Lear, was never afraid to confront hot button issues like abortion, child abuse, and racism. But he could also miss the mark. How did Bern Nadette react to cast departures for pushing back on racial stereotypes being portrayed in the script?

[00:18:02] Eddie Robinson: And what does she think about the new animated reboot of the series? I’m Eddie Robinson. I SEE U. Returns in just a moment. We’ll be right back. If you’re enjoying this program, be sure to subscribe to our podcast. I SEE U with Eddie Robinson. You can hear all the past episodes and be notified when new episodes are released.

[00:18:26] Eddie Robinson: Also please take a minute to give us a review or comment. We love getting feedback from our listeners.

[00:18:40] Eddie Robinson: You’re listening to I SEE U. I’m Eddie Robinson. We’re chatting with Bern Nadette Stanis. She’s best known for her role as Thelma on the hit Norman Lear series for CBS, Good Times. Stannis remains active in the industry, playing the role of Nene Duncan and Carl Weber’s The Family Business and The Family Business New Orleans on BET.

[00:19:02] Eddie Robinson: Good Times received an NAACP Image Award in 1976, as well as an Impact Icon Award from TV Land 30 years later. Two actors from the show, Jimmy Walker and Esther Rolle, received Golden Globe nods. Good Times was a show that offered up a new Black family dynamic never before seen on network television. One memorable episode included the Evans family discovering that a high paying job that father of the house James had been offered had one big cool setback.

[00:19:36] Good times A Real Cool Job – Season 3 Episode 1: James! Where is the job?

[00:19:40] Good times A Real Cool Job – Season 3 Episode 1: Alaska.

[00:19:42] Eddie Robinson: Or the time when a neighbor, who was reportedly eating dog food because she couldn’t afford groceries, insisted on bringing a main dish she had personally cooked for older brother J. J. ‘s birthday party.

[00:19:54] Good Times The Dinner Party – Season 2 Episode 19: I’m gonna still be chicken about eating that meatloaf.

[00:19:56] Good Times The Dinner Party – Season 2 Episode 19: Better chasing foxes, I’m gonna be chasing cats.

[00:20:01] Eddie Robinson: Good times never back down from talking about hot topics. You know, the show was edgy and provocative. But, you know, it also meant that it was a constant balancing act, right? I want, how, I was going to call you Thelma, but it’s okay. The balancing act of all of that though, is this notion that you could possibly be fired.

[00:20:24] Eddie Robinson: Right. I mean, look, in season four, the audience saw the departure of John Amos and in, I think it was in a 2015 interview, Amos confirmed that his departure from the show was due to differences surrounding how the writers depicted his character, James Evans as the Black father and the problematic depiction of JJ played by Jimmy Walker.

[00:20:44] Eddie Robinson: And so after the fourth season, Esther Rolle, she left the show after agreeing with Amos. So talk to us there in terms of what that was all like.

[00:20:55] Bern Nadette Stanis: Well, you have to understand being the first of the first of the first, you, you’re going to have to go through a lot because first of all, you have writers that don’t understand a lot about the Black culture.

[00:21:11] Bern Nadette Stanis: Then you have the, uh, the Black actors who are representing the Black culture. So we’re fighting that too, with that too. So we’re, we’re bringing to, um, the writers who we are as a people, and then who we are as John Amos, and who we are as a father. Okay. So it goes that way with everybody. So everything is touchy.

[00:21:32] Bern Nadette Stanis: ’cause you know, even in families, real families, you don’t agree with everything. No. You know,

[00:21:37] Eddie Robinson: it’s true.

[00:21:37] Bern Nadette Stanis: Some of ’em go way far and start calling each other names so you know .

[00:21:40] Eddie Robinson: Yeah. Or don’t talk to anyone for years and years on end. Right?

[00:21:45] Bern Nadette Stanis: I know, right. So you have to understand the only way that anybody could fight on television was like, I’m gonna fire you.

[00:21:51] Eddie Robinson: Okay.

[00:21:52] Bern Nadette Stanis: You see, so it’s touchy either way you look go, but it’s not as detrimental. It’s just that, okay, I’m mad at you. I’m the producer and you’re, you’re the actor. I’m going to get rid of you or something like that. You know what I mean? But I don’t think that what John. Was saying was so out of pocket. I think it was very much in pocket, but it, you can’t put everything in a, in a TV show, you know?

[00:22:12] Bern Nadette Stanis: So you have a lot of fighting, a lot of bad feelings, a lot of different things going on and still have to perform. So you have to understand that they’re all, everybody’s a human being. So we’re going to have feelings about it. Yay or nay. Okay, so being that they really didn’t particularly want a dad on Good Times anyway, so I guess it was an easier. We don’t want a dad. Anyway, get out of here. So

[00:22:36] Eddie Robinson: A Black father role. Yeah interesting.

[00:22:38] Bern Nadette Stanis: Oh, yeah, Black black father. That’s what I’m saying. But Yeah, not that not a dad, but a Black father. And so Esther said when she got the show They wanted her to be, you know, mom with three kids. So she said, No, I don’t want that. I want my America to know that Black fathers stick with their Black wives or whomever, white, whatever, but stick with their families.

[00:23:01] Bern Nadette Stanis: So she was making a statement, you know, for Black men. And then they said, Okay, who do you want? She said, John Amos, you know, and he was the absolute perfect father. For all of America, Black or white, you know what I mean?

[00:23:16] Eddie Robinson: Absolutely.

[00:23:17] Bern Nadette Stanis: All races loved it. We had nothing to do with color with about that. It was the character of him.

[00:23:23] Bern Nadette Stanis: It was the spirit of the man. It was the way he took care of his children. So, uh, We love James, therefore, but John, who is a Black guy, you know, with his Black father, he’s going to tell them, look, this is what a Black father would do. This is what a Black husband would do. And then sometimes they would say, no, but we want to get it, you know, come on, you can say, and so, you know, they both were hot and passionate about their points.

[00:23:50] Bern Nadette Stanis: So I guess that’s where the little argument thing came. from, but everybody had their points, you know, and so it just, it’s a matter of how you handled it. Sometimes you have to give a little, sometimes you have to take a little. So once you know, everybody gives and take, gives and take, that’s, that’s like a marriage.

[00:24:08] Bern Nadette Stanis: It’s like anything else. You have to give and take, especially if it’s your first and you’ve never been there before. You know, so it was the first time the writers, producers had to deal with a totally, total Black family. And it was the first time that we were there to teach them how we see things outside of, you know, how maybe they saw things.

[00:24:31] Eddie Robinson: Wow, this is sounding like one of your books.

[00:24:34] Bern Nadette Stanis: Yeah, I was thinking that.

[00:24:35] Eddie Robinson: 101, the relationships.

[00:24:36] Bern Nadette Stanis: Wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait a minute, maybe I should save this for the book.

[00:24:43] Eddie Robinson: That is fantastic. But look, you know, we’re talking about color and this, that, and the other, but here we go with Good Times, The Jeffersons, and Sanford and Son, you know, all Norman Lear productions.

[00:24:54] Eddie Robinson: These were, you know, Black shows, so to speak, showing white America what Black life was in many ways.

[00:25:02] Bern Nadette Stanis: That’s right.

[00:25:03] Eddie Robinson: But it was also a production, Bern Nadette, led by. A white man, you know, he was celebrated for inclusion, but you also had instances like John Amos and Esther Rolle. I wanted to get your thoughts too on that, you know, what was going through your mind at the moment around the last couple of episodes?

[00:25:23] Eddie Robinson: Because it felt like they were doing all types of things, several attempts to win audiences over, bringing in Florida’s friend, you know, Walona. And then they brought in Janet Jackson with Penny and the adopted daughter of Walona. Even Esther Rollee’s character returned. I mean, I bet your head was spinning.

[00:25:42] Bern Nadette Stanis: I was thinking like, okay, oh man, that’s happening now. Okay. So, um, you know, what does my character have to do and, and things like that. And, you know, I just kept doing my part, you know, um,

[00:25:54] Eddie Robinson: Head down.

[00:25:55] Bern Nadette Stanis: Yeah, I just kept doing my little part, but you know, As I look back on Good Times as a whole now, the whole season, it’s, it was, it was, um, amazing how different seasons show different family units.

[00:26:12] Bern Nadette Stanis: Like, uh, parents do die in families. Okay.

[00:26:15] Eddie Robinson: That’s right. That’s right.

[00:26:17] Bern Nadette Stanis: Yeah. Mommies do get remarried or they leave for a while and go visit, you know, these things. And then you have an aunt that may be taking care of the children and then you have adoption in there and then you have mommy come back and we got to receive her just as well.

[00:26:34] Bern Nadette Stanis: And then you have one of the kids getting married, you know, so actually when you look at good times. Every type of family dynamic, not maybe every type, but many types that we go through today, was right there in good times.

[00:26:52] Eddie Robinson: I’m Eddie Robinson. This is I SEE U. And we’re chatting with Bern Nadette Stanis. She was an original cast member of Good Times, which ran from 1974 to 1979 on CBS. The series depicted, as she stated, differing views of what Black families look like in America. Netflix has just released a reboot, a continuation of the Good Times story, This time, animated, and a little more intense.

[00:27:20] Netflix Good Times Black Again Trailer: I have important news. Let me

[00:27:23] Netflix Good Times Black Again Trailer: guess, the state called and they want to cut you a disability check

[00:27:27] Netflix Good Times Black Again Trailer: for your face. Hold up, you can get paid for that?

[00:27:29] Netflix Good Times Black Again Trailer: This is from a fool who stares at his orange juice every morning.

[00:27:32] Netflix Good Times Black Again Trailer: It says concentrate on the box. Who the dummy now?

[00:27:35] Eddie Robinson: What do you feel happened with this Netflix good times animation?

[00:27:43] Eddie Robinson: I mean, Oh, what has happened here?

[00:27:46] Bern Nadette Stanis: I forgot all about that animation.

[00:27:52] Netflix Good Times Black Again Trailer: All started with my grandfather, James Evans.

[00:27:55] Eddie Robinson: I mean, here we are loving the beautiful aspect of what life brings us. Life be lifin in Good Times. Right? I love that

[00:28:05] Bern Nadette Stanis: Life be lifin.

[00:28:06] Eddie Robinson: Life be lifin That’s right.

[00:28:09] Bern Nadette Stanis: That’s a good one.

[00:28:09] Eddie Robinson: And here we are right here. It’s always, you know, risky, of course, to remake a classic TV show or film.

[00:28:16] Eddie Robinson: Fans can either love it or hate it. But here we are with Netflix. You’ve made public statements already, Bern Nadette, about saying that the new show didn’t come out the way you thought it would turn out, right?

[00:28:28] Bern Nadette Stanis: No, of course not.

[00:28:30] Eddie Robinson: What’s going on?

[00:28:31] Bern Nadette Stanis: I don’t know. But my my vision of a good times cartoon is is really The characters on Good Times, you know, the mother, the father, the the whole thing and to see what happened generations later.

[00:28:44] Bern Nadette Stanis: Or, you know, you can even make it right after that, you know what I mean? Because people always come up to me and say, are you going to do a remake? Um, we want to know what happened to Thelma, you know, right. They say, well, did she have the baby? I mean, it was a boy, a girl, you know, you know what I mean? So it’s just dropped right there.

[00:29:02] Eddie Robinson: They wanted to continue it.

[00:29:03] Bern Nadette Stanis: Of course.

[00:29:04] Eddie Robinson: That’s true. It just dropped.

[00:29:06] Bern Nadette Stanis: It just dropped. And so we’ve always, the audience always had a need for an answer. Okay. They wanted to complete the story and they never really got a chance to do that. And I understand that cause I know if I love the show so much and it was a continuation like that, I would want to know what happened to my characters too. You know.

[00:29:25] Eddie Robinson: As I was watching the old versions of Good Times, that’s what pulled me in because I’m thinking to myself, okay, this is the episode where they’re going to get out of Chicago, or this is the episode where they’re going to finally either win a lottery or they’re going to really, you know, find a way to not continue to watch the asphalt growing and they’re going to finally see green, beautiful flowers.

[00:29:51] Bern Nadette Stanis: Oh my God.

[00:29:52] Eddie Robinson: It never happened.

[00:29:54] Bern Nadette Stanis: Well, now people realize, okay, they can never get out of the ghetto because that would be the end of the show.

[00:30:01] Eddie Robinson: That’s right.

[00:30:03] Bern Nadette Stanis: So the last show we did, we all got out.

[00:30:07] Eddie Robinson: And if I’m not mistaken, did you and J. J. pitch an animated version at one point?

[00:30:14] Bern Nadette Stanis: Oh, yeah, yeah.

[00:30:15] Eddie Robinson: I thought I read something about that.

[00:30:17] Bern Nadette Stanis: Yeah, he did this, um, in 2020. He wanted the cartoon. He, we were talking about it would be great for the cartoon and this and that and other things. So he did pitch it.

[00:30:27] Eddie Robinson: But not this version, right? Of what Netflix and this Seth MacFarlane thing.

[00:30:31] Bern Nadette Stanis: No, no. It was the version of. The way I just spoke it like, you know, the parents and

[00:30:37] Eddie Robinson: Everything would be picked back up.

[00:30:38] Bern Nadette Stanis: Yeah, and we can we can touch on new things. Yes, but even if they said two generations later and we had children, okay, so you want to know? Well, where’s the Thelma? Child, which one is that? Okay. That’s her. That one. Okay. And what did, what did JJ have and didn’t, what did Michael become and things like that?

[00:30:56] Bern Nadette Stanis: Because we were going in such a positive direction, you see, that they could have picked up on some of those things, which would have made it much nicer to us and to our audience. And you know, this cartoon would have been fine. Had it not had the name, good times attached to it, if they had called it robot city or whatever they wanted to do.

[00:31:18] Bern Nadette Stanis: But you know, I mean, it would have made it, I think, but when you attach the word Good Times to it, you bring back everything that the Good Times fans want to see the morals, the characters, the promise that this, that, that, and then you bring it into two generations later. Which is not saying that gangs don’t exist, not saying that people don’t have guns.

[00:31:45] Bern Nadette Stanis: I’m not saying that. But, you know, you have to look at it with the characters in mind. Well, what were they? Who did they stand for? You can’t go opposite when we fell in love with Good Times for 50 years. That’s saying a lot right there, you know? So you go another way and nobody wants to see that. Not attached to Good Times.

[00:32:09] Eddie Robinson: Do you feel that this Good Times, the new reboot tarnishes the legacy or even the legacy of even Thelma or at least the legacy of Good Times. Period.

[00:32:22] Bern Nadette Stanis: No, I don’t think it has anything to do with us. I think that we made our statement. And our audience loves that and these characters are making their statement and they have to stand on that.

[00:32:33] Netflix Good Times Black Again Trailer: Your neighborhood is a real s***hole.

[00:32:36] Netflix Good Times Black Again Trailer: It’s the system. They put the guns and drugs on the streets.

[00:32:42] Netflix Good Times Black Again Trailer: This is getting dangerous

[00:32:44] Bern Nadette Stanis: You understand? Okay, they have the same names and the same ideas, like good times and songs and stuff like that, but that’s all it is. It’s like they’re borrowing that, but it has nothing to do with the way we thought and the way they’re, they’re thinking.

[00:32:56] Eddie Robinson: How did you find out that the show was going to be brought back as an animation to the degree that it was okay being presented to us now?

[00:33:06] Bern Nadette Stanis: Okay. When they came back at us and said that they’re gonna do the animation, of course, you know, everyone called up, I mean, my side of the fence, my, my agent and my manager, they called up to see, well, are we gonna be in it or are we not gonna be in it?

[00:33:19] Bern Nadette Stanis: Well, no, they’re gonna do a whole different thing with a young crowd, which is like two generations later. Okay, fine. Not knowing what it was, you know, they just said, this is how we’re gonna do it. So then they said we would like to have you and JJ attached to it in some kind of a way which sounded okay, you know, because they can’t use us They they’re using other people so They gave me a character named Peaches and she was like one of the people in the projects fighting for rights for the projects, you know, that kind of thing.

[00:33:47] Bern Nadette Stanis as Peaches on Netflix’s Good Times Black Again Season 1 Episode 10: They said it was temporary. They were just going to relocate us out here to Harvey while they fixed up our building. But we’re still here. Those are going to be some nice new garden apartments in place of the projects.

[00:34:00] Bern Nadette Stanis: And Jimmy had a character, I don’t know what his character was exactly, but they were very small parts. I had like. Two days of work, whatever. And so my character’s name was Peaches. So that was fine with us. Everything was fine. I was in support of it.

[00:34:14] Eddie Robinson: Did you see either the concept of the show or the script?

[00:34:16] Bern Nadette Stanis: No, no, never saw anything. Only heard that this guy named Carl, it was going to be about him. I guess he was one of the kids.

[00:34:24] Bern Nadette Stanis: I don’t know. And, and, and that’s all I heard about it, but it was going to be good times. So I’m thinking automatically, you know, you know what good times is. So I felt safe enough to say, okay, I’ll do one of the small characters. But, you know, when I, when I saw the trailer, I knew it was a little bit, it was quite different than what I had expected, you know?

[00:34:47] Netflix Good Times Black Again Trailer: The revolution will not be televised!

[00:34:49] Bern Nadette Stanis: Come on, Rosa Parks, can’t you just enjoy this?

[00:34:54] Eddie Robinson: So you saw the trailer like everyone else, like we all did.

[00:34:57] Bern Nadette Stanis: Yeah, exactly.

[00:34:58] Eddie Robinson: They didn’t send you, like, a future screener or something that was, you know, in advance?

[00:35:03] Bern Nadette Stanis: No, no, absolutely not. One of my objections to it was this. I had an interview with Jim Gilstrap a year before the cartoon never came out. He’s the original singer of Good Times. So he did the singing and everything like that. He said, Oh, but there was some lyrics they took out. I said, Really? Well, what were they? And he said, Well, they thought it would be offensive to Black people so they didn’t put it in. And it was, Roaches lining the hallway.

[00:35:32] Bern Nadette Stanis: Something like that. And the, uh, Landlord lives on the other side of town.

[00:35:41] Bern Nadette Stanis: So I said, Oh, they cut those out. He said, yeah, you know, they did. They thought that would be offensive to, to Black people. And then when I see the, the, the thing, I’m looking at this man taking a shower. And he has two cockroaches in the shower.

[00:36:11] Bern Nadette Stanis: So I said, well, I guess they walk from the hallway to the shower. I don’t know. I don’t know. But the whole thing was that the cockroaches 50 years ago would be offensive to us. But the cockroaches today in the shower singing Good Times would not be? But it’s, it’s cockroaches insinuate, you know, trifling, you know, you leave your food around and you, and you, you know, you don’t wash your dishes.

[00:36:37] Bern Nadette Stanis: That’s what it indicates. Okay. So that’s why 50 years ago when they said that’s offensive. That’s why, you know, I, I respect that, you know, because cockroaches in anybody’s house is offensive. So that’s why I’m saying, what, what didn’t they see? What do they see?

[00:36:57] Eddie Robinson: And from what many critics are saying and asking, who signed off on this?

[00:37:05] YouTube Content Creator Tiffany Byrd Harrison: Who is this for? This can’t possibly be for people who saw the original Good Times in real time. This millennials. Like y’all gotta be kidding me.

[00:37:16] Stephen A. Smith on Good Times Reboot: If I don’t look happy, there’s a reason. And the reason would be is because. I saw an opening scene where an animated Black character was in the shower talking to a cockroach. A baby was a drug dealer.

[00:37:31] Eddie Robinson: This just seems like a bit of a caricature, so to speak.

[00:37:34] Bern Nadette Stanis: It’s a caricature and it’s a disconnect.

[00:37:37] Eddie Robinson: Extreme disconnect.

[00:37:38] Bern Nadette Stanis: That’s what it is. And when you see something like that, you’re saying it’s what they see and believe and think it’s okay and what really is. And what are you projecting?

[00:37:50] Eddie Robinson: Right. Right. And it perpetuates that stereotype.

[00:37:53] Bern Nadette Stanis: Sure. It does. Because there are little kids that are less than 50. Okay. And they’re looking at this stuff and they’re like, Oh, so even foreign, you know, people, people that are not Black, you know, other nationalities and children no less may watch it. And then you’re thinking, okay, that’s how these, that’s how Black people live.

[00:38:12] Bern Nadette Stanis: Not true. You know, you want to project positivity all around, not just, you know, this is what they are. You know, because we’re not that and that’s why at the end of the interview with, with Jim Gillstrap, I said, well, maybe white people have roaches too.

[00:38:29] Eddie Robinson: I love it. I love it.

[00:38:32] Eddie Robinson: Well, it’s been a pleasure. And I want to end our conversation with this last question that we always ask our guests before they leave of all that you’ve accomplished Bern Nadette as a published author and for being the first Black female teen ever on television through six seasons on one of the most extraordinary shows ever created on television, the trials, the tribulations that life has thrown at you and the triumphs and the triumphs.

[00:38:59] Eddie Robinson: Bern Nadette Stanis. What lessons have you learned about yourself thus far?

[00:39:06] Bern Nadette Stanis: Well, the lesson that I’ve learned is that throughout all of life, you have to lean on something. Okay. And for me, it has been God. I know that when I have to go through things and what I’m going through only belongs to me because no one can carry my heart or my, my burden.

[00:39:29] Bern Nadette Stanis: I have to lean on the Lord. And that’s what I do. And that’s the only way I can make it through.

[00:39:38] Eddie Robinson: The legendary Bern Nadette Stanis. Thank you so much for being a guest on I SEE U.

[00:39:44] Bern Nadette Stanis: Thank you for having me.

[00:39:46] Eddie Robinson: Bern Nadette Stanis plans to release a new book in the fall of 2024 entitled, Good Times, Ain’t We Lucky We Got Em: Memoir of an American Sweetheart.

[00:39:55] Good Times Theme Song: Just looking out of the window.

[00:40:00] Eddie Robinson: Coming up, Black representation in the media has come a long way since Good Times debuted in 1974. But are we at risk of seeing more misrepresentations in media with stereotypes and bad tropes? We explore with variety TV critic, Aramide Tinubu. I’m Eddie Robinson. Our final segment comes your way right after these messages.

[00:40:40] Eddie Robinson: If you’re enjoying this program, be sure to subscribe to our podcast. I SEE U with Eddie Robinson. You can hear all the past episodes and be notified when new episodes are released. Also, please take a minute to give us a review or comment. We love getting feedback from our listeners.

[00:41:06] Eddie Robinson: You’re listening to I SEE U, I’m your host, Eddie Robinson. If you’re a regular listener of the show, and we certainly hope you are, you know that we’ve featured actors and filmmakers in recent episodes, and many of them have spoken about the arc of Black representation in film and television. From the minstrelized blackface imagery, just before the start of the 20th century, to an exceptional handful of Black actors that went to Hollywood in the early 60s, we’ve of course seen negative stereotypes that equate Blackness with poverty and criminality.

[00:41:41] Eddie Robinson: But we’ve also seen a deeper, more colorful picture of African Americans over the last decades on screen, be it on TV programs like HBO’s Insecure or the ABC sitcom Abbott Elementary to films like Moonlight or Black Panther. And yet those negative stereotypes persist with the 50th anniversary of Good Times coinciding with the re imagining reboot that producers say contains social commentary.

[00:42:11] Eddie Robinson: Many critics have said this new animated series heavily leans into damaging stereotypes of Blacks and outdated tropes of gang related violence, being in the ghetto, uneducated, and overly sexualized. Aramide Tinubu is a TV critic for Variety and has written about this recent reboot of Good Times, and she joins us now from New York City.

[00:42:35] Eddie Robinson: Aramide, I’m so glad that you’re here. Thanks so much for being a guest on I SEE U.

[00:42:40] Aramide Tinubu: Thank you so much for the invitation, Eddie. I’m so excited to be here.

[00:42:43] Eddie Robinson: Aramide, I spoke at the top of this segment about this arc of Black representation in media, and with these negative, harmful stereotypes reappearing on a very powerful and popular streaming platform like Netflix, are we slowly starting to see that slope of the arc in representation?

[00:43:00] Eddie Robinson: Head back down? I thought we were advancing, personally speaking.

[00:43:03] Aramide Tinubu: I certainly wouldn’t say we’re in a downward slope. I think like white people, we deserve to make bad things. There can be a plethora of things at one time. For me, what this felt like was looking at something that had been shelved or someone had forgotten about it for several years, and someone just Netflix office.

[00:43:22] Aramide Tinubu: That’s kind of how I see it. felt watching it. It felt very dated, very antiquated, like it was for a past time, like maybe for a decade ago. The jokes might have been a bit sharper, but it doesn’t make sense for a present day audience considering everything we’ve gone through with presidential elections, the uprising with COVID, all these things that have happened this far.

[00:43:43] Aramide Tinubu: Series just has no resonance to where we are now as a people. And it felt very strange to watch it.

[00:43:50] Eddie Robinson: You made a comment right at the top and saying, we deserve to make bad content. Do we?

[00:43:56] Aramide Tinubu: I think we do. Yes. I think just like white people, we deserve, we’re not a monolithic people. people. If we want to have the same amount of representation, not all of it’s going to be great.

[00:44:07] Aramide Tinubu: What’s concerning here to me is the fact that I know there’s a wealth of scripts and ideas floating through Hollywood with never seen before talent, unheard of scriptwriters. And these are the things that the studios is touting that then becomes concern. If we’re seeing series like Rap S*** that get canceled or South Side or all of these incredible series, but this, this Good Times reboot is being pushed through.

[00:44:33] Aramide Tinubu: What does that say about the industry and what they’re trying to say about us? And that is what is concerning to me.

[00:44:41] Eddie Robinson: Let’s dive deeper into that in terms of the industry. Are we seeing. Many of us in conference rooms, inside executive offices, making decisions. Where are we there?

[00:44:54] Aramide Tinubu: I think for a time there was, but I think we’re looking at a post COVID moment.

[00:44:58] Aramide Tinubu: Everything seems to be in a downturn in terms of our economics. Uh, the Supreme court has done away with DEI. And I think that some, obviously we see the schools and universities following that. And it’s unsurprising then that. These big powerhouses, the streaming platforms, these different studios would follow suit there.

[00:45:17] Aramide Tinubu: So I am very concerned about the lack of people of color, Black people sitting at these heads. Because for me, what’s important, even if you’re going to make something that everyone doesn’t love, is that it’s going to be checks and balances. It just seems like no one read over these scripts. No one said, Hmm, I don’t really get this.

[00:45:35] Aramide Tinubu: Let’s sort of refresh this. Let’s change things up. And I know also you all. Spoke with Bern Nadette who used to play on the original Good Times. And my concern there is that she said that she didn’t know that this is sort of how things were being represented. So it seems to be like a little bit of a catch and grab or something is going on where things aren’t very transparent.

[00:45:55] Aramide Tinubu: And that for me is concerning is a lack of checks and balances that seems to be going on.

[00:46:03] Eddie Robinson: And Bern Nadette. said, You know what? Why call the show Good Times, you know, and she felt like that was the reason as to why it has so much pushback. So much backlash. What do you think of that insight in that sort of perspective that she held on to?

[00:46:21] Aramide Tinubu: I 100 percent agree. I think sometimes There is a lot of what we would say outrage politics, so they know that Black people are going to be outraged about something. So they, they purposely pick at us, and I think in some ways that was the reason for Good Times. I know that it was in the top ten for a couple of days, and it’s completely fallen off the Netflix chart from what I understand and can tell.

[00:46:45] Aramide Tinubu: So I think it was like a quick, quick and grab in a way getting people behind it. I know that mr. Norman Lear passed away recently So what I’m he was very elderly when he passed So I’m not quite sure even how involved he was other than just putting his stamp on it as an executive producer since it’s his original idea. But I agree with Bern Nadette.

[00:47:03] Aramide Tinubu: Why do this? Why Try to hook it into something that meant so much to so many people. And that was a cultural moment for us, uh, not just for Black people, but for television in general, it just was very, very strange.

[00:47:17] Eddie Robinson: This I SEE U. I’m Eddie Robinson, and we’re speaking with Aramide Tunubu. She’s a TV critic at Variety, and you can check out her recent article. Netflix’s is Good times Reboot Is Dated Humorless and Baffling at variety. com.

[00:47:35] Eddie Robinson: Renata Shepard, who was the showrunner for the Good Times reboot, you know, she’s spoken. And the showrunner stated that without the cast doing interviews for the show and no framing of the show’s concept, audiences were pretty much left to form their own opinion of the series.

[00:47:53] Eddie Robinson: Should viewers have watched the entire series before giving their opinion about it?

[00:47:58] Aramide Tinubu: I don’t necessarily think so. I understand what she’s saying. This is her baby. I understand the work that goes into this. I know that she was not the first show runner. This was not her original creation. She had to step in when the original creator had differences with the, you know, in creating the series and decided to walk away from it.

[00:48:16] Aramide Tinubu: I don’t think we need to be explained I think it’s important to know that we as an audience are intelligent, uh, not just Black people. People across the board were intelligent and can form our own opinions about without someone explaining things. If you need someone to explain the accuracy, explain and hold your hand and walk through, that means there’s an issue with your content, in my opinion.

[00:48:39] Aramide Tinubu: So I think, uh, It’s unfair that kind of, you know, this big studio kind of threw this at us without giving her cast and crew and everyone involved the opportunity to do what everyone else can do, which is a press run. But they also knew what was coming or they also knew the product that they had, which is why they probably didn’t allow that.

[00:49:00] Aramide Tinubu: It’s an interesting point that she makes, but you shouldn’t have to be handheld through a piece of content. It should speak for itself.

[00:49:08] Eddie Robinson: Is it that we don’t watch the good material, or is it not marketed to us?

[00:49:14] Aramide Tinubu: I think it’s twofold. I think that when we think about television, people want to be entertained.

[00:49:20] Aramide Tinubu: They don’t necessarily want to talk about enslavement. They don’t want to talk about hard things. I think it’s important personally to watch that because these people live and they existed and it’s important that we tell our, their stories. We’re not that far removed. I remember. I’m watching the Quincy Jones documentary.

[00:49:38] Aramide Tinubu: His grandmother was an enslaved person. She raised him on the South side of Chicago, his grandmother. We’re not that he’s an older gentleman, but we’re not that far removed. Um, so I think it’s important to say, yes, we can have crime series, like a Power universe, but Kindred is also. Interesting. And Rap S*** is also interesting.

[00:49:58] Aramide Tinubu: And Abbott Elementary is also interesting. We should have a plethora of things. So it is up to us to watch things and to learn and experience things for ourselves. What was interesting about Good Times is that people did watch it. Like after the trailer came out, the trailer was lambasted across social media, but people also went to it, which is why it was on the top 10, even if it was for that 48, 72 hour.

[00:50:24] Aramide Tinubu: A period of time and they form their own opinion what’s interesting about streamers? And I know that you know old Hollywood doesn’t necessarily like it But it does make things much more accessible than a Society of Magical Negroes which costs We’re in a recession that no one wants to admit it But it costs a great deal of money to take yourself or let alone a family or anyone else to the movie theaters So with the streamers, there’s a lot more content.

[00:50:51] Aramide Tinubu: There’s a lot more accessibility. It’s cheaper overall. So I think we have to look at all of those things when we’re talking about making films, making television shows and where they’re going to end up, whether it is in theaters, only on video on demand or on the streamer, which is included in your, your monthly subscription to that streamer.

[00:51:13] Eddie Robinson: She’s TV critic for variety. Aramide Tinubu, thank you so much, so much for your generosity and time spent here as a guest on I SEE U.

[00:51:23] Aramide Tinubu: Thank you so much, Eddie. I had such a wonderful conversation.

[00:51:28] Eddie Robinson: Our incredible team includes Technical Director Todd Hulslander, Producers Laura Walker and Mincho Jacob. We had help this week from Rick Dulock and public media station KVCR, also Gotham Podcast Studio.

[00:51:44] Eddie Robinson: I SEE U is a production of Houston Public Media. Follow us on Instagram and X. We’re @ISEEUSHOW. Subscribe to our podcast wherever you listen and download your favorite shows. You can also catch us on our show page, iseeu.org. I’m your host and executive producer. Eddie Robinson. And I feel you.

[00:52:07] Eddie Robinson: We hear you. I SEE U. Thanks so much for listening until next time.